Ask The Brewmasters

 View Only
  • 1.  Wort aeration with air and flowrates

    Posted 01-27-2023 14:23
    Hello Brewers,

    I am getting a rotometer for our aeration line, so far we have just been setting the flowrate based on visual in the sight glass.

    I was wondering if anyone out there has some DO in wort data and flowrates using sterile air. I know there are several variables that affect the solubility of O2 into wort (gravity, temp, Fermenter size), just looking to get a baseline flowrate to start as I do not have access to a DO meter. Any data and experience you can share is much appreciated.

    Just for some additional info. We have 20bbl fermenters and most beers are of average strength 12-14p


    ------------------------------
    Stewart Brown
    Director of Brewing Operations
    Banff Hospitality Collective
    Banff, Alberta
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Wort aeration with air and flowrates

    Posted 01-30-2023 11:38
    Hi Stewart,
      There is a very good discussion on this topic (with examples) in the "MBAA Practical Handbook for the Specailty Brewer-Volume 2"

    Best,
    Phil

    ------------------------------
    Phil Leinhart
    First Key Consulting
    Cooperstown NY
    (607) 237-4468
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Wort aeration with air and flowrates

    Posted 01-31-2023 12:26
    Hi Stewart,

    Here is a step-by-step method:

    1. Multiply wort volume (liters) by target DO (mg/L).  Assuming 2,350 liters gassed to 8 mg oxygen/liter, you need 18,800 mg of oxygen.
    2. Convert mg of oxygen to moles by diving by 32,000.  In the example above, you need 0.59 moles of oxygen.
    3. One mole of an ideal gas at standard temperature and pressure (0˚C at atmospheric pressure) occupies 22.4 liters.  In the example above, 0.59 moles converts to 13.2 liters.
    4. Convert 13.2 liters to a rate by dividing by your aeration period.  Let's assume it takes 45 minutes to fill your fermenter and you aerate for 15 minutes after 20 minutes of wort cooling.  Your oxygen flow rate is 0.66 liters per minute at atmospheric pressure or "0.66 slpm."
    5. 100% of the injected oxygen is not going to absorb into the wort stream.  However, if you have a proper aeration set-up, you may achieve 90%+.  Without a DO meter, you have to start somewhere.  If you assume 90%, then your oxygen flow rate goes up 0.73 slpm.

    Cheers,
    Ashton

    ------------------------------
    Ashton Lewis
    Manager of Training and Technical Support
    BSG Craftbrewing
    MBAA District Great Plains, Technical Chair
    Springfield, Missouri
    (417) 830-2337
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Wort aeration with air and flowrates

    Posted 02-06-2023 16:02
    Thank you Ashton for this detailed response. I assume in your example you are assuming pure O2 as the gas source.  If I am using air and wanted to achieve the same ppm of O2 in your example would it just be the case of increasing the flowrate of the air to 3.5lpm. 0.73 is approximately 21% of 3.5

    ------------------------------
    Stewart Brown
    Director of Brewing Operations
    Banff Hospitality Collective
    Banff, Alberta
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Wort aeration with air and flowrates

    Posted 01-30-2023 11:38
    I know this isn't what you're asking and I hope other commenters will be more helpful with your specific needs but I have to say that having a DO meter is really the only way to go if you want to have consistency and control. Couple that with a high quality, medical grade flow meter and you'll see good results in your fermentations.

    ------------------------------
    Bill Hyland
    Head Brewer
    Bozeman Brewing Co.
    Bozeman, MT
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Wort aeration with air and flowrates

    Posted 01-31-2023 12:03
    Hello! I have been starting to collect DO data since we got an inline O2 meter for wort aeration installed recently. Prior to having the meter which measures in ppm we had just been doing 3 L/min for wort aeration. Now that we are collecting data we are seeing that we are potentially aerating too much depending on strain of yeast with the guidelines in the industry averaging around 10 ppm. However we have very healthy yeast and are able to harvest and take it out to quite a few gens. I'm going to be working on a project of seeing the optimum aeration ppm amounts and seeing how it will effect our ferms over time with our ale vs lager strain. 3 L/min seems to do the trick to where O2 is not limited for yeast! Feel free to email me if you would like some of the data/ info! shaye.holdaway@upslopebrewing.com

    ------------------------------
    Shaye Holdaway
    QA/QC Manager
    Upslope Brewing Company
    Boulder CO
    (602) 499-1248
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Wort aeration with air and flowrates

    Posted 01-31-2023 12:04
    Bill, would you mind sharing how/when you take a DO reading on the wort? We've tried testing inline during KO but the amount of O2 that has yet to dissolve will drastically increase these results. At the moment we are testing samples after KO from the sample port. 


    Brandon Moss
    11 Below Brewing Company
    Houston, Texas
    281.795.1813






  • 8.  RE: Wort aeration with air and flowrates

    Posted 01-31-2023 12:38
    It's actually oddly difficult to get a straight answer from DO people about this but we have heard that you want the meter at least 6 feet away from the stone. We have about 10 feet. It probably looks a little weird but I just have a 10 foot hose looped around the chiller. 

    Bill Hyland 
    Bozeman Brewing Co. 






  • 9.  RE: Wort aeration with air and flowrates

    Posted 02-06-2023 16:05
    Hi Stewart, I apologize in advance for the somewhat anecdotal nature of my experience with this and will try to avoid to much hearsay. But I have been using sterile air to aerate my wort since I started my brewery 3 years ago, so I've got some rough level of experience with it.

    I have a 10 bbl brewhouse and make both 10 and 20 bbl batches of wort. For a 10 bbl batch I generally pump wort through the chiller(Knockout) at 10gpm while running sterile air through a sintered stone at 12-15LPM depending on the batch. I have to confess I haven't recently measured the DO I'm achieving in wort with my DO probe, but early on in the life of the brewery I found that about 8ppm was about the most I could achieve, I may have seen 9ppm at one point, but increasing air flow rate past a certain point did not increase the DO in wort. I don't have charts handy, but I believe most literature will tell you that about 8ppm is the max you can achieve using air at 68dF. I would imagine you could achieve slightly higher at 50dF if you were say knocking out a Lager, but I have no data to show the difference, and I imagine it is small. Additionally, on a 20 bbl 'double' batch, I will knockout as fast as possible, which is approximately 14 gpm for me and aerate at 15LPM.

    If you are interested in spending some money to be able to measure what you are achieving I would highly recommend this meter, which is for pH primarily, but a DO probe can be plugged into it. It is only for ppm level DO, so wort measurements. It is not capable of ppb level measurements so won't be useful for checking DO in beer.

    Multiparameter edge pH Meter - HI2020-01 | Hanna Instruments
    edge® Compatible Digital DO/Temperature Electrode - HI764080 (hannainst.com)

    If you don't already have a pH meter I would recommend this with the knowledge that it can also double as a DO meter. But that may be more than you want to spend.

    While 8ppm may not sound like a very high number for wort aeration, I find with the American Ale yeast strain I use it is completely adequate. I have also had plenty of successful lager fermentations. One thing you could try if you wanted more aeration for say a higher gravity wort is to bubble in additional air in the fermentor 12-24 hours into fermentation. I know that may be anathema to many brewers, but there seems to be strong evidence that aeration at that stage is a strong driver of fermentation and yeast growth. Oxidation worries should be minimal at that stage, as the yeast will rapidly consume all oxygen provided.

    The main thing I would say about using air as opposed to oxygen is that you aren't really able to over oxygenate the wort, it just isn't possible in my experience, so better to really drive in as much air as you can to make sure you are achieving maximum DO. The one annoying thing I come across when really giving it the full beans on aeration is excessive foaming of wort in the fermentor while filling. I don't think this is much of a problem other than a nuisance to clean up, but some people may be worried about long term effects of foaming the wort on head retention. I haven't noticed a problem, but it could be something someone may want to consider.

    Again, sorry for all the hearsay and lack of hard evidence to back up my claims, but this is my experience with using sterile air and I hope it helps.



    ------------------------------
    John Kochendorfer
    Head Brewer
    District Brewing Company
    Mount Vernon WA
    (425) 275-3447
    ------------------------------