Ask The Brewmasters

Hey all,

I am being told by our local wastewater authority that my location and method for collecting wastewater samples is insufficient. We have many floor drains that terminate in a central point that is inconveniently underground and so have used random samples from said drains in the past to satisfy testing. They are asking me to install a sample box that meets their specific requirements.

I know the current method is not an ideal way to measure the true average of what's going down the drain but it's going to be very costly to dig up my beautiful brewery floor (underneath a wall) and install what they have suggested.

What I want to know is if anyone uses another way to take a representative sample of effluent without a central sampling point?

I'm thinking of taking timed samples from every floor drain at specific intervals for a certain period of time - (maybe 12 or 24 hrs, although there's no production between 8p and 6a)

Could I refrigerate such a sample and argue that it meets the average effluent? How would you approach working with the folks at the county on meeting these requirements economically?

Thanks,

Hey all,

I am being told by our local wastewater authority that my location and method for collecting wastewater samples is insufficient. We have many floor drains that terminate in a central point that is inconveniently underground and so have used random samples from said drains in the past to satisfy testing. They are asking me to install a sample box that meets their specific requirements.

I know the current method is not an ideal way to measure the true average of what's going down the drain but it's going to be very costly to dig up my beautiful brewery floor (underneath a wall) and install what they have suggested.

What I want to know is if anyone uses another way to take a representative sample of effluent without a central sampling point?

I'm thinking of taking timed samples from every floor drain at specific intervals for a certain period of time - (maybe 12 or 24 hrs, although there's no production between 8p and 6a)

Could I refrigerate such a sample and argue that it meets the average effluent? How would you approach working with the folks at the county on meeting these requirements economically?

Thanks,

Hey Jonathan,

To add to Kyle's good advice (and not simply related to our shared jurisdiction). Do you have access to a sewer vault outside of the building that is after the drains come together into your industrial wastewater line? If your building does not have a separate industrial and sanitary sewer, is there a clean out that you can access after the drains come together but before it ties into your sanitary sewer? Before we had our wastewater pH adjustment infrastructure fully built out we had an autosampler pulling from a vault in the parking lot. Sampling was triggered with a flow switch that was left suspended in the pipe. If flow was detected it would pull a sample. This set up is very common in municipal wastewater for inflow audits across the community. We use a Hach autosampler but Isco is another common brand. Depending on features you can purchase one for $5,000-$10,000. There are also contract outfits that can manage sampling for you and provide their own autosampler.

Regarding hold times you should speak to your third party lab and your POTW for their requirements. It is common to sample into a cooled sampler (either refrigerated or iced down). For BOD₅ samples must be stored and delivered cold and then the sample hold time is <48h. We run our autosampler on back-to-back days, use a refrigerated sampler, pack in an iced cooler, and use a courier to take samples to a lab in Portland. 

Always happy to chat wastewater. Feel free to email me Campbell@pfriembeer.com

Cheers,

Campbell

Hey all,

I am being told by our local wastewater authority that my location and method for collecting wastewater samples is insufficient. We have many floor drains that terminate in a central point that is inconveniently underground and so have used random samples from said drains in the past to satisfy testing. They are asking me to install a sample box that meets their specific requirements.

I know the current method is not an ideal way to measure the true average of what's going down the drain but it's going to be very costly to dig up my beautiful brewery floor (underneath a wall) and install what they have suggested.

What I want to know is if anyone uses another way to take a representative sample of effluent without a central sampling point?

I'm thinking of taking timed samples from every floor drain at specific intervals for a certain period of time - (maybe 12 or 24 hrs, although there's no production between 8p and 6a)

Could I refrigerate such a sample and argue that it meets the average effluent? How would you approach working with the folks at the county on meeting these requirements economically?

Thanks,

Thank you all for these ideas. Unfortunately, the only access outside of the building is a cleanout that is post sanitary sewer. There's no point before where the brewery drains meet the sanitary sewer to gain access besides a few clean outs. 

My strategy is to send a endoscope camera down these cleanouts to see if it's feasible to fish a sensor from an area volume flow meter to establish flow rate in a partially filled tube and use an auto sampler like the ones you mentioned to pull a sample.

I'm not sure if this will satisfy the POTW but that is the plan I am going to submit for feedback once I know if it's viable. I'm also getting estimates on digging up the floor to install a sample point. It might actually be more cost effective to gain access to the drain than purchasing expensive sampling equipment.

Thanks!

Hey Jonathan,

To add to Kyle's good advice (and not simply related to our shared jurisdiction). Do you have access to a sewer vault outside of the building that is after the drains come together into your industrial wastewater line? If your building does not have a separate industrial and sanitary sewer, is there a clean out that you can access after the drains come together but before it ties into your sanitary sewer? Before we had our wastewater pH adjustment infrastructure fully built out we had an autosampler pulling from a vault in the parking lot. Sampling was triggered with a flow switch that was left suspended in the pipe. If flow was detected it would pull a sample. This set up is very common in municipal wastewater for inflow audits across the community. We use a Hach autosampler but Isco is another common brand. Depending on features you can purchase one for $5,000-$10,000. There are also contract outfits that can manage sampling for you and provide their own autosampler.

Regarding hold times you should speak to your third party lab and your POTW for their requirements. It is common to sample into a cooled sampler (either refrigerated or iced down). For BOD₅ samples must be stored and delivered cold and then the sample hold time is <48h. We run our autosampler on back-to-back days, use a refrigerated sampler, pack in an iced cooler, and use a courier to take samples to a lab in Portland. 

Always happy to chat wastewater. Feel free to email me Campbell@pfriembeer.com

Cheers,

Campbell

Hey all,

I am being told by our local wastewater authority that my location and method for collecting wastewater samples is insufficient. We have many floor drains that terminate in a central point that is inconveniently underground and so have used random samples from said drains in the past to satisfy testing. They are asking me to install a sample box that meets their specific requirements.

I know the current method is not an ideal way to measure the true average of what's going down the drain but it's going to be very costly to dig up my beautiful brewery floor (underneath a wall) and install what they have suggested.

What I want to know is if anyone uses another way to take a representative sample of effluent without a central sampling point?

I'm thinking of taking timed samples from every floor drain at specific intervals for a certain period of time - (maybe 12 or 24 hrs, although there's no production between 8p and 6a)

Could I refrigerate such a sample and argue that it meets the average effluent? How would you approach working with the folks at the county on meeting these requirements economically?

Thanks,

Hey all,

I am being told by our local wastewater authority that my location and method for collecting wastewater samples is insufficient. We have many floor drains that terminate in a central point that is inconveniently underground and so have used random samples from said drains in the past to satisfy testing. They are asking me to install a sample box that meets their specific requirements.

I know the current method is not an ideal way to measure the true average of what's going down the drain but it's going to be very costly to dig up my beautiful brewery floor (underneath a wall) and install what they have suggested.

What I want to know is if anyone uses another way to take a representative sample of effluent without a central sampling point?

I'm thinking of taking timed samples from every floor drain at specific intervals for a certain period of time - (maybe 12 or 24 hrs, although there's no production between 8p and 6a)

Could I refrigerate such a sample and argue that it meets the average effluent? How would you approach working with the folks at the county on meeting these requirements economically?

Thanks,

Hey all,

I am being told by our local wastewater authority that my location and method for collecting wastewater samples is insufficient. We have many floor drains that terminate in a central point that is inconveniently underground and so have used random samples from said drains in the past to satisfy testing. They are asking me to install a sample box that meets their specific requirements.

I know the current method is not an ideal way to measure the true average of what's going down the drain but it's going to be very costly to dig up my beautiful brewery floor (underneath a wall) and install what they have suggested.

What I want to know is if anyone uses another way to take a representative sample of effluent without a central sampling point?

I'm thinking of taking timed samples from every floor drain at specific intervals for a certain period of time - (maybe 12 or 24 hrs, although there's no production between 8p and 6a)

Could I refrigerate such a sample and argue that it meets the average effluent? How would you approach working with the folks at the county on meeting these requirements economically?

Thanks,