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  • 1.  Sulfur

    Posted 12-21-2022 07:58
    Hello,

    We brewed a kolsch November 11th using the BSI W-177 strain. The fermentation was text book and the beer smelled good during fermentation. It's been at lager temperature for about 3 weeks and has some sulfur in the aroma. I don't want to scrub the beer in the brite and lose head retention. Should I just leave it lager longer to dissipate the sulfur? 

    We usually get sulfur in our lagers that disappears after proper lagering time, I believe this is normal.

    Is there anyway to prevent sulfur? Is there something we should be looking at; oxygen, nutrients, etc?

    We sometimes get sulfur on low hopped / low ABV Chico beers too, again it will dissipate with time.

    Thank you,
    Zach



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    Zachary Gordon
    Old Thunder Brewing
    Pittsburgh PA
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  • 2.  RE: Sulfur

    Posted 12-21-2022 11:42
    Zach,

    I have used a Kolsch strain that was a strong sulfur producer and found that holding the beer in the low 50-degree range for conditioning eliminated the sulfur in a few days.  Colder lagering took significantly longer.

    ------------------------------
    Jamie Ray
    Brewmaster
    Oyster City Brewing Co.
    Apalachicola FL
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Sulfur

    Posted 12-21-2022 15:22

    Zach,

     

    Yeast produce sulfur products for various reasons, usually some kind of stress. A primary cause is low wort aeration. Some brewers purposely use low wort DO to stress the yeast slightly and promote sulfite (burnt match smell) production, which is an anti-oxidant and can help with shelf life. However, if this is an H2S issue (rotten egg smell) then you obviously want to get rid of it. Aging with yeast can diminish the H2S slowly, but a simple method to eliminate it more quickly is to exposed it to copper metal. To test this take a small sample and place a copper penny or pipe fitting into the cup. The rotten egg smell will almost instantly disappear as the H2S is reduced to copper sulfide. 

     

    To treat your beer, insert a 1-2 foot length of cleaned and sanitized copper pipe into the outlet hose of a tank recirculation pathway.  Recirculate the beer through the hose, exposing it to the copper metal pipe, and back into the tank. Make sure the outlet hose has an elbow fitting in the flow path to keep the pipe in place. Also make sure that you properly deaerate the recirculation pathway with CO2 to avoid O2 pickup. Recirc for at least 30 minutes checking to see when the H2S smell disappears. Once reduced the H2S will not reappear and the beer should be ready for the next process.

     

    Other then low wort DO process culprits for H2S production by yeast include low wort FAN (try adding some yeast nutrient in the kettle), trub carryover, and high fermentation temperature (for that strain).

     

    Cheers,

     

    Karl

     

    Consulting Brewer,

    Karl Ockert Brewing Services LLC

    www.ockertbrewserv.com

    Cell:  503-887-1938

     




    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Sulfur

    Posted 12-22-2022 10:52
    Hello Zachary,

    In response to preventing sulfur compounds in your lager, here's something to consider:

    A wise professor of brewing once taught our class about the importance of having some hot side copper somewhere in the brewing system. 

    You don't have to have a copper kettle. I understand even a coupon of copper in the system is all that's needed to control sulphur compound formation as a miniscule amount of copper ions is sufficient in the brewing process.  I'm not sure if copper cold water piping imparts a sufficient amount of copper ions into the brewing liquor.

    I'll leave thoughts on lagering time and variations in yeast strain sulphur production to others with more experience.

    I'm very interested to see where this thread leads.

    Harlan Coomes
    Dipl.Brew



    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Sulfur

    Posted 12-22-2022 11:44

    Hi Zach, 
    I've brewed extensively with that yeast strain and can attest to the fact that it can produce a bit of SO2. The sulfur should dissipate with time; my experience was that within 14-30 days of packaging, the SO2 would no longer be detectable. To me (and I'm sure to some other brewers) a bit of SO2 (or "yeast bite") in fresh beer...is a sign that the beer is fresh! I've experienced that in the breweries I've worked at, as well as in my travels in Europe: when you get the beer within 20 miles of the brewery, you may find it is a little "sharper" and has that "yeast bitten" character and that will be your clue that the keg has recently come from the brewery. I think you have a lot of good commentary from the group, and to the points made on the use of copper: that may help? I used to keep a few sections of copper pipe in the grant, in an attempt to achieve what the others are mentioning, for what that is worth. 

    Best of luck with your "brewery-fresh" Kölsch!
    Mike



    ------------------------------
    Michael Miziorko
    Product Manager-Brewing Technology
    Gusmer Enterprises
    Saint Paul MN
    (612) 730-0424
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Sulfur

    Posted 12-22-2022 13:39
    I'm assuming you're referring to H2S here since that's what most people associate with sulfur.  I'd second Karl's comment about using copper.  Aqueous CuSO4 is commonly used in wine to get rid of H2S and I've seen it used with good success in beer as well.  It doesn't take much at all to react and reduce H2S.  I remember not seeing much literature about this method for beer, but you should be able to find some references from the wine industry with dosage rates and such.

    I've heard that using a copper pipe or something similar can be effective, but I've never tried that method myself.

    ------------------------------
    Jason Weihbrecht
    GM of Brewery Operations
    Oskar Blues Brewery
    Brevard NC
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Sulfur

    Posted 02-09-2023 11:25

    Do you have any idea what size of copper piece for a 15BBL kettle?



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    Zachary Gordon
    Old Thunder Brewing
    Pittsburgh PA
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Sulfur

    Posted 02-09-2023 19:31
    Jason,

    It doesn't need to be much. It is copper ions in the wort that do the work in controlling the sulphur compounds.  A small coupon on the hot side in all that's needed according to Charlie Bamforth when we discussed the topic in class. It needs to be solid copper, such as a piece of pipe, in contact with the hot wort.  You might start with a 6" or so piece of pipe or copper plate and see the effect and refine from there.

    He didn't provide any more specifics in the discussion.

    Harlan Coomes




    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Sulfur

    Posted 02-09-2023 19:32
    Sorry! Zachary

    On Thu, Feb 9, 2023 at 3:21 PM Harlan Coomes <coomesh@gmail.com> wrote:
    Jason,

    It doesn't need to be much. It is copper ions in the wort that do the work in controlling the sulphur compounds.  A small coupon on the hot side in all that's needed according to Charlie Bamforth when we discussed the topic in class. It needs to be solid copper, such as a piece of pipe, in contact with the hot wort.  You might start with a 6" or so piece of pipe or copper plate and see the effect and refine from there.

    He didn't provide any more specifics in the discussion.

    Harlan Coomes




    Original Message


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