Ask The Brewmasters

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Cheers!

Have you tried removing the rice? We do a cereal mash with a ground rice product (so different than a flaked product) and it can get very clumpy if it is not mixed well.

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Cheers!

Hi Lisa, 

Have you tried removing the rice? We do a cereal mash with a ground rice product (so different than a flaked product) and it can get very clumpy if it is not mixed well.

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Cheers!

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Thanks in advance, 

------------------------------
Patrick McMahon
Head Brewer
Castle Danger Brewery
Two Harbors MN
(218) 834-5800
------------------------------

Hey Patrick, this sounds frustrating! The first thing that comes to mind is your mill and crush: have you done a grist analysis on your crush? I wonder if you're too many fines and/or flour. Also, even if you're crush is within the range of what it "should be", it may be worth experimenting with different crush levels.

Also, I have the feeling that the length of your vorlauf isn't an issue, but have you tried vorlaufing less? Greg Noonan argues that excessive vorlaufing can lead to excessive lipids extraction (he also argues that a small amount of draft can actually improve trub coagulation) (page 150, New Brewing Lager Beer). To be clear, I'm not saying that your vorlauf is too long, just that vorlaufing until clear on your brewhouse might be too long and might not be necessary. If anything, I would expect a longer vorlauf to pull out the proteins you're finding. Like I said, I don't think the length of your vorlauf is the cause of your issue, but I wanted to toss it out there as an idea.

Good luck!

Nassim

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Thanks in advance, 

------------------------------
Patrick McMahon
Head Brewer
Castle Danger Brewery
Two Harbors MN
(218) 834-5800
------------------------------

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Thanks in advance, 

------------------------------
Patrick McMahon
Head Brewer
Castle Danger Brewery
Two Harbors MN
(218) 834-5800
------------------------------

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Thanks in advance, 

------------------------------
Patrick McMahon
Head Brewer
Castle Danger Brewery
Two Harbors MN
(218) 834-5800
------------------------------

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Thanks in advance, 

------------------------------
Patrick McMahon
Head Brewer
Castle Danger Brewery
Two Harbors MN
(218) 834-5800
------------------------------

Wanted to give everyone an update on this. We ran a trial using Laminex Maxflow at a rate of 0.4kg/MT. The grist bill is as follows: 

Attached is a picture of the kettle toward end of KO. There is still a large buildup of the coagulated mess so it doesn't appear that Bioglucanase is the solution. The Pilsen COA shows a total protein db content of 11.1%, which lines up our historical specs. I have looked at trialing protease as suggested above and I am also talking with Ss Brewtech to see if the boil kettle can be modified to have an external calandria or change to a steam setup. 

If anyone has other suggestions, I'm all ears. 

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Thanks in advance, 

------------------------------
Patrick McMahon
Head Brewer
Castle Danger Brewery
Two Harbors MN
(218) 834-5800
------------------------------

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Thanks in advance, 

------------------------------
Patrick McMahon
Head Brewer
Castle Danger Brewery
Two Harbors MN
(218) 834-5800
------------------------------

Hi Patrick,

Based on the photos presented, it looks more like the problem is the heating element.  It may be too hot, and you are starting to scorch the wort, although the color is not (yet) so dark.  There is a recommended limit between heating surface temperature and wort temperature.  I can search my notes, but I'm sure one of our colleagues can provide the figure.  

It is interesting that material seems to build up on the underside of the element.  You also mentioned fresh hopping?  Do the hops get caught on the element and then trap other material in the wort?  Whole hops are normally used?  Pellets?  Other?

If you are using malt from a reputable supplier, then I do not think protein is a problem.  There is most likely no excess of protein, nor would there generally be an excess of soluble protein.  It is unlikely you are purchasing overmodified malt.  A protease may not offer any benefits here.

Careful and up close examination of the material on the elements is needed.  If you can get a sample of the material and examine it under a microscope, that would be useful.  You will need a few different stains to help investigate.   Always fun to look at things under the microscope and you will learn a lot, too.

Both commercial enzyme products mentioned are beta glucanase or beta glucanase/xylanase products.  They will not help to break down any proteins.  For transparency, my company produces Laminex MaxFlow 4G.

Was flaked rye also mentioned in one of the recipes?  The other problem to be aware of is that these enzymes can be inhibited by rye.    Beta glucanase and xylanase will help with wort separation in general, by lowering viscosity, but you need to pick the right one based upon your grist bill.  Wheat and rye are especially problematic in this regard.

My recommendation:  If you cannot change the heating element, then you need to make sure you have very good mixing action in the kettle from start of lauter to end of boil, and even knock-out, depending upon the process and how long it takes for those coils to cool down. This will keep the wort moving and limit contact time and the potential for scorching.  

I would examine the material found under the lauter tun in the same method, too.  

Siebel Institute offers "Beer Deposits: A laboratory guide and pictorial atlas."  I have always found this reference to be very helpful in troubleshooting.  

Feel free to reach out with any questions.

Hi everyone, 

We have been having issues on our 3.5bbl Ss Brewtech pilot system with a large buildup of what we think is protein/beta-glucan/glycolipid (see attached) during hot break and boil. We have also seen a large amount of it when we clean out the LT and lift the grates up. The main issue we are having is that the protein globs get stuck to the heating element and then scorch the wort to a point to where we have to dump the wort completely. The latest grist bill we had this happen on is as follows: 

Pilsen: 84.7%

Flaked Brown Rice: 10.2%

Flaked Rye: 5.1% 

Single Infusion - 149F mash, 60min rest, vorlauf till clear, start lauter etc. I have tried using different Pilsen base from 3 separate maltsters and got the same effect. I have also tried other recipes with different malts/adjuncts as I was thinking the culprit could have been the flaked rye. Still the same issue. Dan Bies at Briess recommended that we try sparging at 160F instead of 170F in order to see about preventing any gelatinization of the proteins - this did not change the outcome. Dan also did a trial with the same bill and could not replicate our results. 

This doesn't happen every time and all of our brews are single infusion. I have thought about trying bioglucanase to see if it is more of a beta-glucan or arabinoxylan issue. 

Has anyone else experienced this or can point me in the right direction? 

Thanks in advance, 

------------------------------
Patrick McMahon
Head Brewer
Castle Danger Brewery
Two Harbors MN
(218) 834-5800
------------------------------