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  • 1.  Off flavors in gluten-reduced beers

    Posted 05-10-2024 17:25
    Edited by Walter Heeb 05-10-2024 18:37

    I'm a (former and again) commercial brewer in anchorage alaska, and I'm doing a collaboration beer with turnagain brewing. We are making an american lager and ted and i are arguing over whether to make it gluten free or not. I just read your technical paper in the mbaa from 2012, and would love your input:

    I have a real problem with the residuals in gluten-free beers. They taste almost dms-like to me. I'm trying to figure out how to further reduce the proteins so they get taken up by the yeast instead of lingering in the beer and creating off-flavors. You can always tell a gluten-reduced beer when you drink it.

    I've read the technical papers on enzymatoc reduction: seems like enzymatic cleaving still leaves significant constituents in the beer that don't get metabolized by the yeast. I'm curious to identify the specific protein that i dislike so much. Obviously, there's a balance to be found between broadcast proteases (effect on body and head retention) and trying to target a specific protein. I'm curious where current industry knowledge sits. 



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    S. Klein
    Head Brewer
    Modest Brewing
    Anchorage AK
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  • 2.  RE: Off flavors in gluten-reduced beers

    Posted 05-13-2024 15:10
    Edited by Andy Tveekrem 05-14-2024 10:37

    I have a couple of thoughts that may or may not be helpful:

    • Making a beer that is truly gluten free in a normal brewery can be quite difficult. I have not made a gluten free beer before, but I have heard about what needs to be done and, well, it's a lot. To be clear, what I mean is that the beer has been made in such a way that it is 100% safe to be sold to people who cannot tolerate gluten at all. I'm sure you guys have considered this, but I wanted to highlight it anyway.
    • In terms of enzymatic products like ClarityFerm, once again I do not have experience. However, I know brewers who would use it in all their beers and never had issues with an impact on flavor. A homebrewer did an experiment and posted it to Brulosophy. In the experiment, some people could identify the beer with clarityferm, but not enough to be statistically significant. To be clear, I recognize that an experiment posted to Brulosophy is not necessarily at the same level of rigor as you might find in a professional journal. Even so, I think it still represents a meaningful data point. 
      • Having said that, I don't doubt that you can taste a difference. Each of us has different tasting abilities. At the end of the day, though, you might be in a position where you can taste something that most other people can't. 



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    Nassim Sultan
    Brewer/Free Agent
    nassimsultan@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Off flavors in gluten-reduced beers

    Posted 05-13-2024 15:10

    When using terms such as "gluten-free"; it's appropriate to be aware of the actual science.

    Might be worth taking the time to read and listen to Dr. Michelle Colgrave on this topic.

    https://blog.csiro.au/looking-for-a-low-gluten-beer-heres-what-you-need-to-know/

    https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9icmV3ZXJ5cHJvLmxpYnN5bi5jb20vcnNz/episode/YmQ0ZGY3MzYtMDk3NC0xMWVkLTlhOGItMDM2YjVhOWZiZDYx

    https://www.ecu.edu.au/newsroom/articles/research/low-gluten-beer-still-a-risk-for-coeliac-sufferers

    cheers, 

    'Keith 



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    Keith Armstrong
    Retired
    Edmonton AB
    (780) 504-4245
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Off flavors in gluten-reduced beers

    Posted 05-14-2024 09:40

    Hi S. Klein,

    A couple of thoughts here to add to the conversation:

    • Gluten reduced vs Gluten free.  Strongly encourage you to stay away from the "gluten - reduced" style of brewing as beyond the characteristics you have described, in many ways it is irresponsible for breweries to play in this space.  Imagine other products being sold as "peanut-reduced" or "shellfish reduced" or "lactose-reduced"...it simply doesn't help the equal accessibility of food products of people in need to "reduce" the Gluten vs going all gluten-free.
    • I too worked at a commercial brewery up until earlier this year, and brewed many small batches for the pilot program that were 100% Gluten Free.  As pointed out by others it does take significant cleaning, sanitation, and validation that the work surfaces are free of gluten, but it can be done.  Happy to share practices if you decide to pursue the GF brew further.
    • DMS - I've experienced the opposite from your description of seeing DMS in Gluten Free beer.  I'm actually very curious if there are any DMS precursors in Millet, Buckwheat, oats, etc. that exist in Barley based beers.  I'm not aware if a study has been done to determine if DMS does exist in Gluten free grains.  During our GF brews, we had long theorized and many times collected condensate from the kettle stack to sensory analyze whether there was any DMS in the condensate and didn't get any signs of DMS.  The grains are certainly different than barley and have some different characteristics but there are many quality commercial examples that don't have the DMS component in the finished product, as you have seen.  Possibly this was Diacetyl?
    • Exogenous enzymes and nutrients are extremely helpful and recommended in the mash to help with brew day logistics, fermentability, and beer quality.

    If you are interested in learning more about the different grains and options, please reach out to us.  matt@grousemalthouse.com



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    Matthew Bailey
    COO
    Grouse Malt House
    Wellington CO
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    Original Message


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