I did a quick analysis of the data in Fig 8.3 in Yin's 2021 Malt book to which Cullen Dwyer referred. In summary, 20% of FF gravities were greater than the corresponding production gravity, and among these, the difference in gravities was relatively small (mean 0.13P).
There are 15 total unique forced fermentation gravity values of which 8 (53%) have 1 (and no more than 1) production gravity greater than the FF gravity. Each unique FF gravity value has between 1 and 4 production gravity values, i.e., replicate measurements (mean of 2.7 production gravities per FF gravity value). Overall, only 15 (20%) production gravities are higher than the corresponding FF gravity, and among these, the production gravity was on average only 0.13P above the FF gravity (min 0.1P, max 0.2P). The data is presented to the nearest 0.1P, so the differences between some of these could be exaggerated due to rounding. Focusing on the trend line could mislead one to conclude that production gravities are equally distributed around the corresponding FF gravities because an assumption of linear regression is that values are normally distributed around the regression line.
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Jacob Humphries | PhD Researcher
Faculty of Science, School of Life and Environmental Sciences, Sydney Institute of Agriculture
WS-17, Level 7, LEES Building F22
CNR Barff Rd & City Rd (deliveries to Barff Rd loading dock)
The University of Sydney | NSW | 2006
+61 2 8627 7618 | +61 422 011 334 (mobile)
jacob.humphries@sydney.edu.au I sydney.edu.au
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-27-2022 11:25
From: Cullen Dwyer
Subject: Malt COAs and Mash Adjustments
Our lab has tried using method ASBC Wort-5 (Yeast Fermentable Extract, aka "forced ferments") and several variations on it. But we have had trouble getting meaningful results from it. In theory, the attenuation of the force-fermented sample should be the same or greater than that of the same wort in production fermentation. But this is not always the case. I was gratified to see that Dr. Xiang Yin got similar results from the method as our lab did, with production fermentations attenuating on average drier than the laboratory forced fermentations (see pg 99 of his new book MALT, published by the ASBC).
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Cullen Dwyer
QA Manager
Wachusett Brewing Co
Westminster MA
(978) 874-9965x160
Original Message:
Sent: 07-26-2022 21:38
From: Jacob Humphries
Subject: Malt COAs and Mash Adjustments
Hi Campbell,
Regarding your comment, "We pull FF samples on every batch and use this to drive subsequent mash regimes: time, temperature, and steps", can you share resources/references that discuss the specifics on how to adjust time, temp, and steps (TTS) based on forced ferment attenuation? TTS is a relatively complex set of variables (virtually infinite combinations) whereas forced ferment attenuation gives attenuation but no direct measurement of any of the underlying causal determinants of attenuation. I am therefore very interested in learning about how brewers deal with this in practice, and how they learn to deal with it.
Cheers,
Jake
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Jacob Humphries | MPH MBiostat
PhD Candidate
School of Life and Environmental Sciences
Sydney Institute of Agriculture
Faculty of Science
THE UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY
L7-WS-17, Level 7, LEES Building (F22), Eastern Avenue | NSW | 2006
T +61 4 2201 1334
E jacob.humphries@sydney.edu.au
Original Message:
Sent: 07-23-2022 12:43
From: Campbell Morrissy
Subject: Malt COAs and Mash Adjustments
A seemingly simple question that will yield complex answers. Ultimately I think the weight you should put into your COA and the presumed influence it will have on your production facility is brewery dependent. We operate two brewhouses: a 50bbl automated 5-vessel system w/ a wet mill and a 15bbl manual 4-vessel system w/ an old 2-roller mill. I look at malt COAs very closely for use on the larger system but don't give it much weight regarding the smaller system. I've found the inherent variation associated with the equipment (primarily MT, LT, and the mill) as well as the operators is greater than variation seen on a COA. Not that it isn't important, it just plays a much smaller role in decision making.
To answer your specific questions:
- We pull FF samples on every batch and use this to drive subsequent mash regimes: time, temperature, and steps.
- We rarely make decisions solely based on COAs, typically we look for trends in attenuation that align with COA changes. I am primarily looking at DP, AA, S/T, and FAN.*
- To be proactive I would trend a few key variables on your COA to your attenuation. Find out what the primary drivers are for you - depending on your equipment you may find strong or weak correlations. As mentioned we have strong correlations with our large system and weak correlations with our smaller system.
- My next suggestion is to understand what process variables cause the most variation in your system. On both our brewhouses we find that mash time is strongly correlated to attenuation and will adjust both temp and rest time accordingly. On the older system, we also find that grist composition plays a role in attenuation in addition to extract. Almost without fail, will a slight mill adjustment bring attenuation back in check. I find grist composition to be extremely important especially if you are using a M/LT combi vessel.
*there are a lot more variables at play that aren't on your COA, but that is another discussion all together.
I hope this helps. Feel free to reach out for any specifics.
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Campbell Morrissy
Head Brewer
pFriem Family Brewers
PhD Candidate
OSU - Barley Project
Original Message:
Sent: 07-22-2022 21:00
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Malt COAs and Mash Adjustments
This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous
I'm curious how other breweries read their malt COAs and make adjustments to their mash temperatures.
Do breweries pull a wort sample and do a forced fermentation? And then based on the FF results,make a mash temperature adjustment?
Do breweries make mash temperature adjustments based off the COA before they have used the malt? If so, what parameters are you analyzing?
How can we be more proactive with our incoming malt vs reacting to the malt and make mash temperature changes based on final gravity?
What advice do you have?