Ask The Brewmasters

I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.

Hi Tyrell,

The water pH generally doesn't matter.

The water pH generally doesn't matter for corrosion potential unless it's less than 5.

The water pH generally doesn't matter for determining mash pH.

The corrosion potential of the water generally depends on its ionic constituents (or lack thereof). You say that the source water is softened and the RO filtered and then you add some softened water back to get the TDS up, leaving 37 ppm Sodium (inconsequential). In other words, you are brewing with low mineral water – all mineral levels less than 50 ppm. This means that the malts in the mash will generally dominate the chemistry of the mash, and the mash pH will be about 5.8 (i.e., dominated by the base malt).

While I really would like to know the source water profile before softening, I would say that your pH rise is simply due to CO2 coming out of solution as the water temperature rises. Email me at john@howtobrew.com if you have any followup questions.

John

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John Palmer
Owner
Palmer Brewing Solutions Inc
La Crescenta CA

Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2023 17:04
From: Tyrell Elliott
Subject: HLT pH rise

I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.

------------------------------
Tyrell Elliott
Head Brewer
Ghost Note Brewing
Dripping Springs TX
(406) 599-2071
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I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.

I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.

I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.

I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.

I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.

I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.

I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.

I have an issue with my hot liquor tank that has me stumped. Some background on our system: 10 BBL brewery. Steam-heated brewhouse and HLT. Brewing water is stored in Hot and Cold liquor tanks and is Reverse Osmosis with some softened water blended back in to increase the TDS. Source water is from our well, softened and chlorinated for the taproom, bathrooms, etc. The water is de-chlorinated via a carbon filter, then run through our RO system. The small amount of water blended back into the RO stream is from just after the carbon filter. I've had the brewing water tested and it's around 7.1 pH and very neutral (except for the 37ppm of Sodium from the blended water). 

Here's my issue: Water goes into the HLT at around 7 pH. After time in the HLT at temp (186F), the pH starts to rise. The longer it's in the tank and kept hot the higher the pH rise. I've seen it get up to 8.5. My CLT is recycled into the HLT after the HeatEx. If I brew I usually only do one batch/week and many times I leave the HLT on to keep water hot for cleaning etc. That water doesn't get replenished until I need to brew again, and I top up the tank with fresh RO water. The larger pH rise comes after water has been in the HLT and kept hot for extended periods.

Is that much of a pH rise normal? I understand that the pH might change with evaporation but going from 7 to 8+ seems wrong to me. Boiler water carryover has crossed my mind but I don't see any bubbles inside my tank from a leak and as far as I can tell I'm not losing boiler water. I'm wondering if anyone has seen this before and what steps I should take to remedy the situation. Thanks in advance.