Ask The Brewmasters

We have two different hazy IPAs that we fermentation DH. In both brands we use OYL-405 Helio gazer. We have had some issues with haze stability and feel like we have made some progress by getting the DH in at 7-6 Plato. If we do it above 7 or below 6 it goes clear. This results in a dry hop on the first or second day. With a total residence time of 14 days. We then run it though a Brew 250 from Alfa Laval. Here we see the DH in our range run at 3 cube and 12% Outlet turbidity. On the other hand we will run the other (less Haze) around as fast upwards of 10 cubes as possible and get 5-7 outlet turbidity. 

Brand A uses malted Oats and red wheat at 10% each 

Brand B uses White wheat at 20% and Dextrin at 10% 

Has anyone else been seeing this? and does anyone have any other thoughts on Haze stability that I might not be thinking about? 

I have started to wonder if the hop variety has a much larger role than I was thinking. 

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Christopher Courtney
Head Brewer
Mother's Brewing Co
Springfield MO
(417) 862-0423
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Omega yeast has done some studies on this.  DHing too early will actually work as a clarifier.

https://topcrop.co/dry-hop-timing-and-yeast-haze

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Ivan Dedek
Director of Brewing Operations
Meier's Creek Brewing
Cazenovia NY
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Hey Christopher, a number of questions come to mind, but the first one that comes to mind is this: have you always had this issue or did it start recently? If it started recently, what changes occurred within your processes prior to the beers dropping brite too soon?

Nassim

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Nassim Sultan
Brewer/Free Agent
nassimsultan@gmail.com
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Hi Chris,

One of the most common causes of inconsistent haze with haze-positive yeast like Helio Gazer is dry hop timing (thanks Ivan for pointing to our research!). Early dry hop actually prevents haze whereas late dry hopping close to or after reaching terminal plato is most effective for promoting haze. Combining even a small (<0.5 lb/bbl) addition of hops early in fermentation can prevent haze from forming with a late dry hop. Similarly, too much carryover of hop material from the whirlpool and dip hopping with pellets might potentially limit haze as well. Maybe this is related to some of the inconsistencies you are seeing even when dry hopping after 6 plato. These tips apply when the majority of haze is coming from dry hopping and yeast, and may not influence haze generated by protein, b-glucans, and/or polyphenols coming from the malt and hops. Your last comment there is also important to consider. We have seen that hop variety can influence the amount of haze. Hope this helps! If not, we still have more to learn, and feel free to send me an email! 

Laura

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Laura Burns
Director of Research and Development
Omega Yeast
Chicago IL
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What are your pre- and post-dry hop pHs?  We found a very strong correlation with beer pH and haze stability.  We never add any "mid-fermentation" hops, only once the beer reaches terminal.  Anytime the pH of the beer post-DH rose above 4.5 we saw significant haze loss.  This makes sense as the lab assay to drop colloidal haze involves making the beer more alkaline to precipitate these protein-polyphenol complexes.  We target a pH of <4.3 pre-DH to ensure we stay below 4.5 post-DH in order to retain our haze and this has worked very consistently for us.  We run our hazy brands at 25-30gpm through our centrifuge, same as our bright IPAs, and they come out looking beautiful.  We dose acid in the brew kettle for consistency and ease of use once we dialed in how much our individual brands needed to achieve effect.

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Shawn Savuto
QA/QC Specialist
COOP Ale Works
Oklahoma City OK
(405) 842-2667
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