Ask The Brewmasters

This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

Hello fellow beer scientists. 

For the past 2-3 years, we have had on-and-off gushing issues with our lighter bodied brands including a lager and pils (both use the same yeast). We see consumers have issues with "gushing" or spill-over issues around the 5-month mark, the shelf life is 6 months. It is not an over-attenuation issue nor a yeast/bacteria issue. We are adjusting the mash and adding more calcium chloride to try and minimize gushing potential. We do not see the same issue in our hop-forward brands, they also have a shorter shelf-life, and I can imagine hop oils from the dry-hop minimize the potential for gushing?

What I am wondering is:
-is there a relatively easy way to measure gushing potential of the bright beer or the wort? It is challenging to have to wait those 5 months to see what happens
-have any of you had a similar issue and solved it?
-could it be that moving the beer between warm (shelf) and cold (fridge/cooler) temperatures accelerates gushing potential? 

Hoping that adjusting the calcium chloride in the mash will solve our problem, but it is still frustrating that there isn't a better way to measure this and have tangible lab-produced data to support our troubleshooting.

Thanks!

Howdy!

I have experience with non-infection gushing issues in beer.  We had something similar happen and we eventually determined that we were getting a lot of calcium oxalate crystals showing up in our finished beer.  Those crystals basically formed nucleation sites in the beer that caused the CO2 to be ripped out of solution fairly quickly.

We solved the issue by increasing our calcium salts (specifically gypsum) in both the mash water and in the boil kettle.  Increasing the calcium concentration helps these crystals form in the mash and get filtered out with the lauter and not end up in your final beer.

I would take a look at your finished or fermenting beer under a 40x microscope and see if you can spot the crystals.  They will look like tiny crystal pyramids.  If you see more than a few crystals on a single side of a hemocytometer, then you probably have an oxalate issue.

Hope that helps!

------------------------------
Rick Blankemeier
Quality Assurance Manager
Belching Beaver Brewery
VISTA CA
(303) 246-0309
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 16:18
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Gushing Potential

This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

Hello fellow beer scientists.

For the past 2-3 years, we have had on-and-off gushing issues with our lighter bodied brands including a lager and pils (both use the same yeast). We see consumers have issues with "gushing" or spill-over issues around the 5-month mark, the shelf life is 6 months. It is not an over-attenuation issue nor a yeast/bacteria issue. We are adjusting the mash and adding more calcium chloride to try and minimize gushing potential. We do not see the same issue in our hop-forward brands, they also have a shorter shelf-life, and I can imagine hop oils from the dry-hop minimize the potential for gushing?

What I am wondering is:
-is there a relatively easy way to measure gushing potential of the bright beer or the wort? It is challenging to have to wait those 5 months to see what happens
-have any of you had a similar issue and solved it?
-could it be that moving the beer between warm (shelf) and cold (fridge/cooler) temperatures accelerates gushing potential?

Hoping that adjusting the calcium chloride in the mash will solve our problem, but it is still frustrating that there isn't a better way to measure this and have tangible lab-produced data to support our troubleshooting.

Thanks!

At a previous brewery I encountered low levels of a similar gushing effect for beers in our library that had been stored warm for more than 6 months. Carbonation and microbiological testing did not suggest unstable bottles. Looking at which brands did or did not gush, I came to the conclusion that it was related to sedimentation and increasing the amount of nucleation sites within the bottles. Specifically, in batches of a brand that was prone to foaming/ gushing, if there was no evidence of sediment in the bottles prior to opening them, there was rarely any foaming events. I believe it was directly related to the effectiveness of our clarification process. Increased cold aging time, brightness of filtration, and the use of Clarex all seemed to diminish (or in the case of the Clarex, postpone until out of code) the likelihood of foaming. Similar to your experience, our hoppy, light-bodied, modest alcohol beers (<6% ABV) were most likely to have evidence of foaming or gushing. These beers were also some of the most sediment prone. Our higher strength IPA's showed less foaming, and our dark, malty brands were also less likely to foam. This could also have been directly related to carbonation, as our most foaming-prone brands were higher in carbonation by 0.1-0.3 volumes of CO₂.

Calcium oxalate is a huge concern, but we could not find evidence for it in this case. Checking your beer under a microscope as suggested is a simple check for that, and increasing calcium dosage as mentioned, or increasing your cold aging time may help precipitate the crystals. Said crystals are beautiful under a microscope, though.

Happy to follow up if it's useful

------------------------------
Franklin Winslow
Brewer
Tarboro Brewing Co
Tarboro NC
franklin@TarboroBrewingCompany.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 16:18
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Gushing Potential

This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

Hello fellow beer scientists.

For the past 2-3 years, we have had on-and-off gushing issues with our lighter bodied brands including a lager and pils (both use the same yeast). We see consumers have issues with "gushing" or spill-over issues around the 5-month mark, the shelf life is 6 months. It is not an over-attenuation issue nor a yeast/bacteria issue. We are adjusting the mash and adding more calcium chloride to try and minimize gushing potential. We do not see the same issue in our hop-forward brands, they also have a shorter shelf-life, and I can imagine hop oils from the dry-hop minimize the potential for gushing?

What I am wondering is:
-is there a relatively easy way to measure gushing potential of the bright beer or the wort? It is challenging to have to wait those 5 months to see what happens
-have any of you had a similar issue and solved it?
-could it be that moving the beer between warm (shelf) and cold (fridge/cooler) temperatures accelerates gushing potential?

Hoping that adjusting the calcium chloride in the mash will solve our problem, but it is still frustrating that there isn't a better way to measure this and have tangible lab-produced data to support our troubleshooting.

Thanks!

Bumping this since I've been digging into this issue a bit at our facility.  I found some info in a TQ article from 1978 in the link below that sounds very similar to what we've seen.  Typically the affected beer is 4-5 months old and the issue seems to be exacerbated by storing the package on its side.  The paper points to the use of chill-proofing enzymes like papain correlating with gushing in aged beer.  We don't use papain, but do use clarex to help with physical stability.  Anyone else have any luck troubleshooting this particular issue?  I suspect that there is probably an interaction with physical stability creating some nucleation sites inside the package.


https://www.mbaa.com/publications/tq/tqPastIssues/1978/Documents/15_15.pdf


------------------------------
Jason Weihbrecht
GM of Brewery Operations
Oskar Blues Brewery
Brevard NC
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 16:18
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Gushing Potential

This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

Hello fellow beer scientists.

For the past 2-3 years, we have had on-and-off gushing issues with our lighter bodied brands including a lager and pils (both use the same yeast). We see consumers have issues with "gushing" or spill-over issues around the 5-month mark, the shelf life is 6 months. It is not an over-attenuation issue nor a yeast/bacteria issue. We are adjusting the mash and adding more calcium chloride to try and minimize gushing potential. We do not see the same issue in our hop-forward brands, they also have a shorter shelf-life, and I can imagine hop oils from the dry-hop minimize the potential for gushing?

What I am wondering is:
-is there a relatively easy way to measure gushing potential of the bright beer or the wort? It is challenging to have to wait those 5 months to see what happens
-have any of you had a similar issue and solved it?
-could it be that moving the beer between warm (shelf) and cold (fridge/cooler) temperatures accelerates gushing potential?

Hoping that adjusting the calcium chloride in the mash will solve our problem, but it is still frustrating that there isn't a better way to measure this and have tangible lab-produced data to support our troubleshooting.

Thanks!

Another possible scenario:

Calcium oxalate crystals can increase in concentration over time in yeast. If you harvest and re-pitch yeast over and over and don't manage it correctly it can increase the amount of calcium oxalate which then can lead to gushing. 

This can occur even if you are aiding their precipitation in the mash with the right salts profile. 


------------------------------
Philip Kochanke
Kichesippi Beer Co
Ottawa ON
(613) 600-2968
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 16:18
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Gushing Potential

This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

Hello fellow beer scientists.

For the past 2-3 years, we have had on-and-off gushing issues with our lighter bodied brands including a lager and pils (both use the same yeast). We see consumers have issues with "gushing" or spill-over issues around the 5-month mark, the shelf life is 6 months. It is not an over-attenuation issue nor a yeast/bacteria issue. We are adjusting the mash and adding more calcium chloride to try and minimize gushing potential. We do not see the same issue in our hop-forward brands, they also have a shorter shelf-life, and I can imagine hop oils from the dry-hop minimize the potential for gushing?

What I am wondering is:
-is there a relatively easy way to measure gushing potential of the bright beer or the wort? It is challenging to have to wait those 5 months to see what happens
-have any of you had a similar issue and solved it?
-could it be that moving the beer between warm (shelf) and cold (fridge/cooler) temperatures accelerates gushing potential?

Hoping that adjusting the calcium chloride in the mash will solve our problem, but it is still frustrating that there isn't a better way to measure this and have tangible lab-produced data to support our troubleshooting.

Thanks!

Erbsloeh offers a product which counteracts gushing.  My former company used to sell it and it worked great.  Here the information from their technical data sheet:

AnGus® 1516 is a powder product used to precipitate oxalic acid and proteins in beer wort; thereby aiding in the prevention of
gushing. The product is an alternative to using calcium chloride and calcium sulfate in the brewing liquor. AnGus® 1516 is a
calcium enriched silica which provides nucleation sites for calcium oxalate crystals to form. The calcium oxalate along with the
AnGus® 1516 are then precipitated out in the whirlpool. This removal of oxalate prevents gushing without altering the chloride or
sulfate concentrations. It has been tested by specialized laboratories for purity and quality.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

------------------------------
Dirk Loeffler
Loeffler Hygiene & Safety Solutions
(404) 229-7583
loeffler.dirk@loefflerhygiene.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 16:18
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Gushing Potential

This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

Hello fellow beer scientists.

For the past 2-3 years, we have had on-and-off gushing issues with our lighter bodied brands including a lager and pils (both use the same yeast). We see consumers have issues with "gushing" or spill-over issues around the 5-month mark, the shelf life is 6 months. It is not an over-attenuation issue nor a yeast/bacteria issue. We are adjusting the mash and adding more calcium chloride to try and minimize gushing potential. We do not see the same issue in our hop-forward brands, they also have a shorter shelf-life, and I can imagine hop oils from the dry-hop minimize the potential for gushing?

What I am wondering is:
-is there a relatively easy way to measure gushing potential of the bright beer or the wort? It is challenging to have to wait those 5 months to see what happens
-have any of you had a similar issue and solved it?
-could it be that moving the beer between warm (shelf) and cold (fridge/cooler) temperatures accelerates gushing potential?

Hoping that adjusting the calcium chloride in the mash will solve our problem, but it is still frustrating that there isn't a better way to measure this and have tangible lab-produced data to support our troubleshooting.

Thanks!

Thanks Dirk.  I have gone down the rabbit hole of calcium oxalate and don't believe that is the issue.  I've tested the calcium in our wort and it's in a normal range to precipitate oxalate and I've never been able to find the oxalate crystals under the scope.

------------------------------
Jason Weihbrecht
GM of Brewery Operations
Oskar Blues Brewery
Brevard NC
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2022 18:39
From: Dirk Loeffler
Subject: Gushing Potential

Erbsloeh offers a product which counteracts gushing.  My former company used to sell it and it worked great.  Here the information from their technical data sheet:

AnGus® 1516 is a powder product used to precipitate oxalic acid and proteins in beer wort; thereby aiding in the prevention of
gushing. The product is an alternative to using calcium chloride and calcium sulfate in the brewing liquor. AnGus® 1516 is a
calcium enriched silica which provides nucleation sites for calcium oxalate crystals to form. The calcium oxalate along with the
AnGus® 1516 are then precipitated out in the whirlpool. This removal of oxalate prevents gushing without altering the chloride or
sulfate concentrations. It has been tested by specialized laboratories for purity and quality.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

------------------------------
Dirk Loeffler
Loeffler Hygiene & Safety Solutions
(404) 229-7583
loeffler.dirk@loefflerhygiene.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 16:18
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Gushing Potential

This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

Hello fellow beer scientists.

For the past 2-3 years, we have had on-and-off gushing issues with our lighter bodied brands including a lager and pils (both use the same yeast). We see consumers have issues with "gushing" or spill-over issues around the 5-month mark, the shelf life is 6 months. It is not an over-attenuation issue nor a yeast/bacteria issue. We are adjusting the mash and adding more calcium chloride to try and minimize gushing potential. We do not see the same issue in our hop-forward brands, they also have a shorter shelf-life, and I can imagine hop oils from the dry-hop minimize the potential for gushing?

What I am wondering is:
-is there a relatively easy way to measure gushing potential of the bright beer or the wort? It is challenging to have to wait those 5 months to see what happens
-have any of you had a similar issue and solved it?
-could it be that moving the beer between warm (shelf) and cold (fridge/cooler) temperatures accelerates gushing potential?

Hoping that adjusting the calcium chloride in the mash will solve our problem, but it is still frustrating that there isn't a better way to measure this and have tangible lab-produced data to support our troubleshooting.

Thanks!

Another common cause for gushing is a fungal infection of the barley and malt, particular by strains of Fusarium. If you use a certain type of barley malt for the beer in question, the cause could be traced back to the barley itself.

Cheers,

------------------------------
Dirk Loeffler
Loeffler Hygiene & Safety Solutions
(404) 229-7583
loeffler.dirk@loefflerhygiene.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-16-2022 09:55
From: Jason Weihbrecht
Subject: Gushing Potential

Thanks Dirk.  I have gone down the rabbit hole of calcium oxalate and don't believe that is the issue.  I've tested the calcium in our wort and it's in a normal range to precipitate oxalate and I've never been able to find the oxalate crystals under the scope.

------------------------------
Jason Weihbrecht
GM of Brewery Operations
Oskar Blues Brewery
Brevard NC

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2022 18:39
From: Dirk Loeffler
Subject: Gushing Potential

Erbsloeh offers a product which counteracts gushing.  My former company used to sell it and it worked great.  Here the information from their technical data sheet:

AnGus® 1516 is a powder product used to precipitate oxalic acid and proteins in beer wort; thereby aiding in the prevention of
gushing. The product is an alternative to using calcium chloride and calcium sulfate in the brewing liquor. AnGus® 1516 is a
calcium enriched silica which provides nucleation sites for calcium oxalate crystals to form. The calcium oxalate along with the
AnGus® 1516 are then precipitated out in the whirlpool. This removal of oxalate prevents gushing without altering the chloride or
sulfate concentrations. It has been tested by specialized laboratories for purity and quality.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

------------------------------
Dirk Loeffler
Loeffler Hygiene & Safety Solutions
(404) 229-7583
loeffler.dirk@loefflerhygiene.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 16:18
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Gushing Potential

This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

Hello fellow beer scientists.

For the past 2-3 years, we have had on-and-off gushing issues with our lighter bodied brands including a lager and pils (both use the same yeast). We see consumers have issues with "gushing" or spill-over issues around the 5-month mark, the shelf life is 6 months. It is not an over-attenuation issue nor a yeast/bacteria issue. We are adjusting the mash and adding more calcium chloride to try and minimize gushing potential. We do not see the same issue in our hop-forward brands, they also have a shorter shelf-life, and I can imagine hop oils from the dry-hop minimize the potential for gushing?

What I am wondering is:
-is there a relatively easy way to measure gushing potential of the bright beer or the wort? It is challenging to have to wait those 5 months to see what happens
-have any of you had a similar issue and solved it?
-could it be that moving the beer between warm (shelf) and cold (fridge/cooler) temperatures accelerates gushing potential?

Hoping that adjusting the calcium chloride in the mash will solve our problem, but it is still frustrating that there isn't a better way to measure this and have tangible lab-produced data to support our troubleshooting.

Thanks!

Resurrecting this thread to see if anyone has had success intentionally recreating the "winter type" gushing phenomenon. We have been trying the method described in this paper but have not had success. Curious to hear if any other methods have been developed to screen for this issue. 

------------------------------
Robert Beezer
Quality Supervisor
Pfriem Family Brewers
Hood River OR
2532413804
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-15-2020 16:18
From: Anonymous Member
Subject: Gushing Potential

This message was posted by a user wishing to remain anonymous

Hello fellow beer scientists. 

For the past 2-3 years, we have had on-and-off gushing issues with our lighter bodied brands including a lager and pils (both use the same yeast). We see consumers have issues with "gushing" or spill-over issues around the 5-month mark, the shelf life is 6 months. It is not an over-attenuation issue nor a yeast/bacteria issue. We are adjusting the mash and adding more calcium chloride to try and minimize gushing potential. We do not see the same issue in our hop-forward brands, they also have a shorter shelf-life, and I can imagine hop oils from the dry-hop minimize the potential for gushing?

What I am wondering is:
-is there a relatively easy way to measure gushing potential of the bright beer or the wort? It is challenging to have to wait those 5 months to see what happens
-have any of you had a similar issue and solved it?
-could it be that moving the beer between warm (shelf) and cold (fridge/cooler) temperatures accelerates gushing potential? 

Hoping that adjusting the calcium chloride in the mash will solve our problem, but it is still frustrating that there isn't a better way to measure this and have tangible lab-produced data to support our troubleshooting.

Thanks!