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Breakout at the can filler

  • 1.  Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-12-2025 12:46

    Hi all,

    We've been running into issues with cans foaming over while they are being filled. We are using the Pneumatic Scale Angelus CB100F. This was inherited after we bought the equipment and moved into the building. We aren't producing a lot of volume at the moment, but we are trying to ramp up our production. We're currently using 120 bbl brite tanks but only filling them with about 30 bbls. We've played around with the head pressure (12psi-18psi), but we still have a lot of break out during filling. If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate it very much!



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    Moses Lara
    Tejas Beer
    Houston TX
    (832) 819-7874
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  • 2.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-12-2025 16:25
    Edited by Walter Heeb 02-12-2025 16:36

    Hi Moses,

    Can I ask how cold you are able to get the beer in your 120bbl BBT, and how cold is it when it hits your can line? Our 120bbl BBT has two circumferential glycol jackets -- the top of the bottom jacket sits at about 32bbl so that's as low as we'll ever let it get without committing to emptying the tank completely. If you are only doing 30bbl fills and packaging that over the course of multiple runs I'd be worried your beer is sitting below the level in the brite where it is able to be adequately cooled. Just a thought!



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    Alex Green
    Quality Assurance Manager
    Black Tooth Brewing Co
    Sheridan WY
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  • 3.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-12-2025 17:49

    I appreciate you saying that because I just found a temperature sensor had gone out for one of the brites. So, thank you for that!

    I don't think the temperature is the issue, we do have a temp probe on the infeed of the filler. We also check the temperature of the beer in-can to make sure the temperature is accurate. You do have a good point with what you mentioned about the position of the glycol jackets. I'll have to take that into consideration from now on.



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    Moses Lara
    Tejas Beer
    Houston TX
    (832) 819-7874
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  • 4.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-14-2025 16:50

    Hey Moses,

      I work for Pneumatic Scale Angelus, hit me up and I can help you out. I ran one of those fillers for several years. 
      It's an atmospheric filler, so it's highly dependent on pressure, carbonation, and temperature. If you can't get the product cold, you gotta lower the carb. Hit me up and I can help you out. 



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    Grant Smith
    Field Service Technician
    Pneumatic Scale Angelus
    Portland OR
    (330) 907-5025
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  • 5.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-18-2025 16:35

    Hey Grant,

    I've actually talked to you a few times over email. We are trying to see if we can have a technician from you guys come out and service the filler, but I'm caught between two people telling me it's a bit too pricey and another saying we need it. It's been a little difficult trying to make decisions when I'm not the one paying for the services. I'll email you and send you some details about what's been going on. Hopefully you can help with this.  



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    Moses Lara
    Tejas Beer
    Houston TX
    (832) 819-7874
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  • 6.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-18-2025 20:43
    Hey Moses,
       I believe you've been talking to my boss. I'd say it is 100% worth it to have one of us come out and at least give you some proper training and give the machine a once over. Show you how to run it, set and adjust seams, etc. And you should for sure have us out if you want to get that buffer tank back on line. 
       From the pics, the mod valve has been removed and is sitting on the electrical cabinet. You might find having it useful because it can give you a little more control. 
       As for your initial issues - what is the temperature and carb level of your product? 
    Cheers,
    Grant Smith





  • 7.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-19-2025 11:38

    Hey Grant,

    The temperature is at 32 and the carb level is at 2.5. 



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    Moses Lara
    Tejas Beer
    Houston TX
    (832) 819-7874
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  • 8.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-20-2025 13:00

    Might be obvious but it hasn't been mentioned yet, but is that the carb level in the beer measured the day of packaging? Or is that the finished carb after transfer into the BBT? If you're putting a small amount of beer into the bottom of a large BBT you can very quickly over-carb the beer with head pressure.



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    Colin Vent
    Seventh Son Brewing Co
    Columbus OH
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  • 9.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-19-2025 12:48

    I can vouch for Grant's ability to diagnose and solve your CB100F filler issues, as well as train you and your staff. It is well worth the cost but you need to be ready to digest a lot of info. Be ready to take notes and video so you can make the most of his time in your brewery. You will realize a cost savings overall once you get your product loss in check and greatly your downtime as you try to figure out what's going on. This filler does a great job but as with any filler it's not just plug and play. Being an atmospheric filler makes it even more important to know the subtle adjustments to the machine and the condition of your beer that may be needed to be successful.

    Grant kicks ass!



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    Dave Chichura
    Ex Novo Brewing
    Corrales, NM
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  • 10.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-12-2025 16:26

    You didn't mention the temperature of beer being filled.  That is possibly the most important piece of the puzzle.  What are your temperature and CO2 level of the beer that you are filling?



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    Jason Weihbrecht
    GM of Brewery Operations
    Oskar Blues Brewery
    Brevard NC
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  • 11.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-13-2025 13:29

    Hi Moses,

    I'm not familiar with your brand of can filler, but the head pressure in the filler bowl sounds really low.   On our bottle and can filler we typically keep our bowl pressure at 30-40 psi.    Agitation from pumping to your filler, as well as the agitation from the beer pouring down into the can will cause foam overs unless the beer bowl and can are pressured higher than your BBT.   Try slowly going up in pressure at your filler (assuming it can handle that pressure) and see how it does, you should reach a point where the beer calms down.   You always want your beer below 36 degrees as well, as others have posted here

    Other causes for foam overs could be caused by not purging the cans long enough with CO2 before filling, not venting the can down slowly (snifting) before it releases from the filler head.  If you're using Nitrogen on your filler bowl, that can cause issues with gas breakout and I would recommend Co2 only in your filler bowl unless you never let the bowl sit very long as the beer will absorb the Nitrogen.    Also look for anything inline from the pump to the filler that could be causing agitation on the way to the filler bowl just to rule out any other issues.



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    Curtis Holmes
    Alaskan Brewing Co
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  • 12.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-13-2025 13:29

    A few quick things come to mind (in no particular order):

    1. What temperature is the beer in your brite tank?
    2. What is the head pressure on your brite tank?
    3. What is the ambient temperature??
    4. How often do you clean the filler?

    I ask these questions because I have experienced a similar issue with a Wild Goose 4 head filler. To be clear, the issue was not with the filler: the chiller we were working with was undersized and our beer wouldn't be quite cold enough for canning. Inevitably in the summer we would get breakouts on just one filling line. Chilling the beer en route to the filling heads (using an ice or glycol bath) and increasing the head pressure on the brite we were filling off of both helped.

    Nassim



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    Nassim Sultan
    Brewer/Free Agent
    nassimsultan@gmail.com
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  • 13.  RE: Breakout at the can filler

    Posted 02-20-2025 15:57

    Moses, when breakout happens beyond the basic temperature and volumes of CO2 it can be a real needle in a haystack situation.  I am wondering a couple of things.  

    What is the temperature of the beer once it reaches the fill heads?  If you have stated this earlier and I've missed it I am sorry.  I notice that you stated that the beer temp is 32 but I am not sure if that is what the probe at your brite is indicating or if it is the sensor at the fill heads?  I am also wondering if you have recently have replaced the tubing to the fill heads?   Any little nick inside the tubing can create nucleation sites which will cause breakout, the same goes for the beer tubing from the brite tank.  We had a breakout issue a while back and switched to a smaller ID brewing hose to the canning line and it solved our problem.  It made for less beer sitting in the lines to warm up on its way to the canning.   You could also trace the entire canning set up to look for a location that could cause turbulence or excessive restriction on its way to the fill heads.  There could also be temperature stratification in the tank.  Is the head pressure consistent throughout the entire process?  One psi difference can wreak havoc on a perfectly good canning run.  My last question is what are you using to meaurse CO2 columes? Has it been calibrated recently?  2.50 to 2.55 can be a large difference on a canning day.   This is just my two cents.  There are just lots of variables. 



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    Landon Swanson
    Head Brewer
    Pueblo Vida Brewing
    Tucson AZ
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