Ask The Brewmasters

We have a Krohne pressure gauge for our under gasser. Our bubble breaker T's off just before it. In the past we used to be able to set the pressure for the under gasser based on speed we were running and it would solidly stay where it should. For longer than I would like to admit we have been struggling with the pressure regulator bouncing. Like everyone, we are trying to lower our TPOs and in the past making adjustments to the under gasser gave us the most dramatic reductions. With it bouncing we aren't ever really sure what the pressure currently is making experimenting with different pressures impossible. Maintenance has gone through the entire system and finds no obstructions in the line. A tech from Krohne has looked at it and says it is fine. The valve that regulates the flow has been rebuilt with a kit from the manufacturer. We don't know where to look next and have run out of ideas on why this pressure gauge will not stay in one spot.

If we turn it all the way down and then very slowly back up we can get it to stay in one spot. However once the filler stops and starts again it starts bouncing again.

Looking for any suggestions someone may have.  

We have a Krohne pressure gauge for our under gasser. Our bubble breaker T's off just before it. In the past we used to be able to set the pressure for the under gasser based on speed we were running and it would solidly stay where it should. For longer than I would like to admit we have been struggling with the pressure regulator bouncing. Like everyone, we are trying to lower our TPOs and in the past making adjustments to the under gasser gave us the most dramatic reductions. With it bouncing we aren't ever really sure what the pressure currently is making experimenting with different pressures impossible. Maintenance has gone through the entire system and finds no obstructions in the line. A tech from Krohne has looked at it and says it is fine. The valve that regulates the flow has been rebuilt with a kit from the manufacturer. We don't know where to look next and have run out of ideas on why this pressure gauge will not stay in one spot.

If we turn it all the way down and then very slowly back up we can get it to stay in one spot. However once the filler stops and starts again it starts bouncing again.

Looking for any suggestions someone may have.  

We have a Krohne pressure gauge for our under gasser. Our bubble breaker T's off just before it. In the past we used to be able to set the pressure for the under gasser based on speed we were running and it would solidly stay where it should. For longer than I would like to admit we have been struggling with the pressure regulator bouncing. Like everyone, we are trying to lower our TPOs and in the past making adjustments to the under gasser gave us the most dramatic reductions. With it bouncing we aren't ever really sure what the pressure currently is making experimenting with different pressures impossible. Maintenance has gone through the entire system and finds no obstructions in the line. A tech from Krohne has looked at it and says it is fine. The valve that regulates the flow has been rebuilt with a kit from the manufacturer. We don't know where to look next and have run out of ideas on why this pressure gauge will not stay in one spot.

If we turn it all the way down and then very slowly back up we can get it to stay in one spot. However once the filler stops and starts again it starts bouncing again.

Looking for any suggestions someone may have.  

Hi Jeff,

My first guess is that the pressure is bouncing down every time a seamer lid pocket intersects with the can, and then the pressure bounces back up when you are between lid pockets.  Our can seamer shuts off the gas between lids using an orifice on the lid feeder plate that is located at each lid station so you don't waste gas, that could pulse your gas pressure as the filler rotates.   An easy way to check would be to watch your seamer lid pockets and see if the gauge pulsing stays in time with the rotation of the lid feeder, or if you change speed on the filler does the gauge pulsing speed up and slow down as well?   If that is the case, then stopping your filler at a lid placement location will allow you to adjust the proper flow of gas that you want.    

We've had the orifice plate on our lid feeder not seat correctly and then we dump gas all the time, I'm wondering if the steady state of your gas gauge from before was because you had a full time gas leak in the seamer purge system that has now been fixed or it fixed itself due to wear so now the pulsing has showed up.   I would think the pulsing is more normal for expected operation on your filler, especially if the company technician is not finding any issue with operation.   

On our filler (a KHS Innofill), there is a gas regulator upstream of the lid purge and the pressure gauge is mounted right on the regulator (not in the gas line to the seamer) but then downstream of this regulator the manufacturer has a flow control valve.   We don't ever adjust the pressure on the regulator to change the can purging as they recommended keeping it at 2.1 BAR all the time.  To adjust gas flow we only use the flow control valve and adjust according to until we hit a good packaged air reading that we are happy with.   I haven't seen any pulsing on our gas gauge at the regulator but I don't know if everyone else's machines are the same setup, the flow control valve may be the difference on ours.

Not sure if any of that helps you but may give you some ideas to look for.  Good luck  

We have a Krohne pressure gauge for our under gasser. Our bubble breaker T's off just before it. In the past we used to be able to set the pressure for the under gasser based on speed we were running and it would solidly stay where it should. For longer than I would like to admit we have been struggling with the pressure regulator bouncing. Like everyone, we are trying to lower our TPOs and in the past making adjustments to the under gasser gave us the most dramatic reductions. With it bouncing we aren't ever really sure what the pressure currently is making experimenting with different pressures impossible. Maintenance has gone through the entire system and finds no obstructions in the line. A tech from Krohne has looked at it and says it is fine. The valve that regulates the flow has been rebuilt with a kit from the manufacturer. We don't know where to look next and have run out of ideas on why this pressure gauge will not stay in one spot.

If we turn it all the way down and then very slowly back up we can get it to stay in one spot. However once the filler stops and starts again it starts bouncing again.

Looking for any suggestions someone may have.  

Is your underlid gassing system tied into a hot water supply for cleaning/flushing?

We had a similar issue with the flowmeter and pressure regulator on our gassing line. The check valve separating the water and gas piping failed and hot water made its way back into the gas line. It damaged both the flowmeter and pressure regulator: flow is digital, but pressure is just a dial gauge. The problem manifested itself with large swings in flow, which routinely tripped the safety set points, and inaccurate pressure setting on the regulator. Both were designed for gas only; not sure if that could be the case with the Khrone pressure gauge. When we replaced everything there was no visible damage which may be why your team didn't see anything. 

Hi Jeff,

My first guess is that the pressure is bouncing down every time a seamer lid pocket intersects with the can, and then the pressure bounces back up when you are between lid pockets.  Our can seamer shuts off the gas between lids using an orifice on the lid feeder plate that is located at each lid station so you don't waste gas, that could pulse your gas pressure as the filler rotates.   An easy way to check would be to watch your seamer lid pockets and see if the gauge pulsing stays in time with the rotation of the lid feeder, or if you change speed on the filler does the gauge pulsing speed up and slow down as well?   If that is the case, then stopping your filler at a lid placement location will allow you to adjust the proper flow of gas that you want.    

We've had the orifice plate on our lid feeder not seat correctly and then we dump gas all the time, I'm wondering if the steady state of your gas gauge from before was because you had a full time gas leak in the seamer purge system that has now been fixed or it fixed itself due to wear so now the pulsing has showed up.   I would think the pulsing is more normal for expected operation on your filler, especially if the company technician is not finding any issue with operation.   

On our filler (a KHS Innofill), there is a gas regulator upstream of the lid purge and the pressure gauge is mounted right on the regulator (not in the gas line to the seamer) but then downstream of this regulator the manufacturer has a flow control valve.   We don't ever adjust the pressure on the regulator to change the can purging as they recommended keeping it at 2.1 BAR all the time.  To adjust gas flow we only use the flow control valve and adjust according to until we hit a good packaged air reading that we are happy with.   I haven't seen any pulsing on our gas gauge at the regulator but I don't know if everyone else's machines are the same setup, the flow control valve may be the difference on ours.

Not sure if any of that helps you but may give you some ideas to look for.  Good luck  

We have a Krohne pressure gauge for our under gasser. Our bubble breaker T's off just before it. In the past we used to be able to set the pressure for the under gasser based on speed we were running and it would solidly stay where it should. For longer than I would like to admit we have been struggling with the pressure regulator bouncing. Like everyone, we are trying to lower our TPOs and in the past making adjustments to the under gasser gave us the most dramatic reductions. With it bouncing we aren't ever really sure what the pressure currently is making experimenting with different pressures impossible. Maintenance has gone through the entire system and finds no obstructions in the line. A tech from Krohne has looked at it and says it is fine. The valve that regulates the flow has been rebuilt with a kit from the manufacturer. We don't know where to look next and have run out of ideas on why this pressure gauge will not stay in one spot.

If we turn it all the way down and then very slowly back up we can get it to stay in one spot. However once the filler stops and starts again it starts bouncing again.

Looking for any suggestions someone may have.  

Hi Jeff,

My first guess is that the pressure is bouncing down every time a seamer lid pocket intersects with the can, and then the pressure bounces back up when you are between lid pockets.  Our can seamer shuts off the gas between lids using an orifice on the lid feeder plate that is located at each lid station so you don't waste gas, that could pulse your gas pressure as the filler rotates.   An easy way to check would be to watch your seamer lid pockets and see if the gauge pulsing stays in time with the rotation of the lid feeder, or if you change speed on the filler does the gauge pulsing speed up and slow down as well?   If that is the case, then stopping your filler at a lid placement location will allow you to adjust the proper flow of gas that you want.    

We've had the orifice plate on our lid feeder not seat correctly and then we dump gas all the time, I'm wondering if the steady state of your gas gauge from before was because you had a full time gas leak in the seamer purge system that has now been fixed or it fixed itself due to wear so now the pulsing has showed up.   I would think the pulsing is more normal for expected operation on your filler, especially if the company technician is not finding any issue with operation.   

On our filler (a KHS Innofill), there is a gas regulator upstream of the lid purge and the pressure gauge is mounted right on the regulator (not in the gas line to the seamer) but then downstream of this regulator the manufacturer has a flow control valve.   We don't ever adjust the pressure on the regulator to change the can purging as they recommended keeping it at 2.1 BAR all the time.  To adjust gas flow we only use the flow control valve and adjust according to until we hit a good packaged air reading that we are happy with.   I haven't seen any pulsing on our gas gauge at the regulator but I don't know if everyone else's machines are the same setup, the flow control valve may be the difference on ours.

Not sure if any of that helps you but may give you some ideas to look for.  Good luck  

We have a Krohne pressure gauge for our under gasser. Our bubble breaker T's off just before it. In the past we used to be able to set the pressure for the under gasser based on speed we were running and it would solidly stay where it should. For longer than I would like to admit we have been struggling with the pressure regulator bouncing. Like everyone, we are trying to lower our TPOs and in the past making adjustments to the under gasser gave us the most dramatic reductions. With it bouncing we aren't ever really sure what the pressure currently is making experimenting with different pressures impossible. Maintenance has gone through the entire system and finds no obstructions in the line. A tech from Krohne has looked at it and says it is fine. The valve that regulates the flow has been rebuilt with a kit from the manufacturer. We don't know where to look next and have run out of ideas on why this pressure gauge will not stay in one spot.

If we turn it all the way down and then very slowly back up we can get it to stay in one spot. However once the filler stops and starts again it starts bouncing again.

Looking for any suggestions someone may have.