Ask The Brewmasters

  • 1.  Nitrogen for push and purge?

    Posted 11-15-2019 16:40
    Hi Brewfolk,

    Has anyone used or is currently using Nitrogen for push and purge gas?  I found a nice article in TQ vol. 29 about it but haven't found anyone using it practically yet.

    Thanks!

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    Brian Logan
    QC Supervisor
    Bale Breaker Brewing
    Yakima WA
    (509) 424-4000
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  • 2.  RE: Nitrogen for push and purge?

    Posted 11-16-2019 11:19
    Hi Brian,

    I use to have a nitrogen generator when brewing in the Caribbean, as CO2 was very expensive. I would use N2 as a push gas when filtering beer. I would also use it to purge our BBTs using the quick evacuation method. 3x evacuations. The morning of the filtration I would put a CO2 blanket in the bottom of the BBT then start the filtration. Was achieving 30-50ppb of O2 in the brite beer after going through a DE Plate and Frame filter. Send me a message if you have any further questions

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    Stewart Brown
    Director of Brewery Operations
    Banff AB
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Nitrogen for push and purge?

    Posted 11-18-2019 12:51

    Hi Brian,

    We're about to receive our Atlas Copco N2 generator. It's 59 grade (99.999%) and we sized it to push 30bbl in 30 minutes. 

    This will be a first for me. The cost of CO2 in the Arctic ($3.35/lb) made a recovery unit feasible within 18 months. Here in Newfoundland the cost is still around $1.25ish/lb which means we can't afford to waste any. I plan to use a 10s blanket and then push with N2. We'll still carb, but the N2 is expected to reduce our consumption of CO2 by 90%. 

    Email me if you want to know more about my BS. 



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    Mike Wayne
    Brewmaster
    Boomstick Brewing Co
    Corner Brook
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Nitrogen for push and purge?

    Posted 11-18-2019 12:51
    Hi Brian,

    we're doing that all the time! We have a nitrogen generator on site. We use it to purge air from tanks, put pressure on during cold crash, move beer, evacuate kegs and DE filter.

    We even tried to use it in our counterpressure canning line, but quickly realized that that is an area where Nitrogen most definitely does not work!

    Shoot me a message if you have any more questions!

    Cheers!

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    Jochen Fahr
    President
    Brauerei Fahr Inc
    Calgary AB
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Nitrogen for push and purge?

    Posted 11-18-2019 12:53
    We use nitrogen from a generator for everything (except carbonation of course). DO pickup for cider is not as big of a deal as it is for beer so I can't so for sure you would be OK, but I would guess it's not a big deal. If you were using liquid nitrogen I suspect it wouldn't make a difference anywhere other than purging during filling (where the weight of CO2 is more important) because the liquid nitrogen is very pure. With a generator, the purity is going to depend on the size of your systems and the rate of use which will vary. The less purity you can get away with the cheaper the system will be to buy and operate.

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    Matt Brockman
    President of Manufacturing
    Downeast Cider
    East Boston MA
    (978) 505-1211
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Nitrogen for push and purge?

    Posted 11-19-2019 12:21
    Dang!  I had not even considered the cost of co2 in remote areas....thats bonkers.  Was the option for a co2 recovery system considered?  We would love to start purging kegs on our washer with nitrogen, as opposed to air.  Would need produce 70-100cfm and re-gen every 8 min, give or take.  I've brought reps into discuss building a system to suit, but would be curious to see what a turnkey system goes for.  

    Aside from the mentioned, Atlas Copco, what are others using?

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    Dan Peron
    Arbor Brewing Company Microbrewery
    Ypsilanti MI
    (734) 480-2739
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Nitrogen for push and purge?

    Posted 11-18-2019 12:53
    Hello Brian,

      We have a nitrogen generator at one of our brewpubs.  We played around with purging tanks and purging bottles pre-packaging.  In addition to some logistical issues (too small a generator), safety issues (people can't smell nitrogen), we ran into a purity issue.  We were introducing a larger-than-desired amount of oxygen into the tanks and bottles with the generated nitrogen.

      I'd recommend keeping an eye on the O2 levels of whatever you're pushing/ purging and definitely following up with some CO2 before beer.

    I hope this helps.

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    Andrew Horne
    Conshohocken Brewing Co
    Conshohocken PA
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Nitrogen for push and purge?

    Posted 11-19-2019 13:06
    In regards to safety, has anyone using this much N2 installed an O2 meter around the point of use area? I was speaking to a fire fighter buddy of mine currently taking a HAZ MAT class. He recommended we put an O2 meter in our cold box along with a CO2 meter to ensure that a nitrogen leak from our beer gas did not cause an O2 deficient environment.

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    Campbell Morrissy
    Director of Brewery Operations
    Mother Road Brewing Co
    Flagstaff AZ
    (201) 704-6304
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    Original Message


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