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seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

  • 1.  seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-10-2017 12:37

    hello nitro experts:

    upon review of the following article Measuring Nitrogen Gas in Beer by Karl Ockert

    http://www.mbaa.com/brewresources/brewpedia/BrewPosts/A%20way%20to%20measure%20N2%20in%20beer.pdf

    as well as review of past discussions on the topic i have a few detailed questions

    1. the article mentions using 23psi head pressure, nitrogen, and time. forum comments mentioned the same thing but pressures varied. Is it standard practice to carbonate the beer to around 1.8 to 2.0 VOL. C02 ahead of this process?
    2. About how long does the above infusion process take at the mentioned 23 psi? does the process occur faster at higher pressures? (above 30psi was mentioned)
    3. In the articles calculation section, it mentions 24.1 as the adjusted molar volume yet in the calculation examples its shown as 22.4 which is correct?

    thank you in advance.

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    Michael Smith
    Head Brewer
    Eel River Brewing Co.
    Fortuna, CA
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-11-2017 19:11

    We do quite a bit of nitrogenation in our brewery. What we found that works the best is getting the beer as cold as possible (~31F-32F), pressurizing headspace to ~25 psi, and then sending nitrogen through carbstone to achieve 30 psi head pressure. The low temp and the high pressure do wonders. All of our tanks are 2 bar working pressure. 

    ------------------------------
    Josiah Blomquist
    Head Brewer
    MacLeod Ale Brewing Co
    Van Nuys CA
    (805) 630-1976



  • 3.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-11-2017 23:11
    In that some of the previous posts have suggested using extremely high tank head pressures for dissolving Nitrogen in Beer, I wanted to ask if all of these breweries have had their tanks manufactured by ASME rated fabricators and if the tanks have been tested to recommended ASME pressure minimums?

    Non Pressure rated tanks are ostensibly not tested for pressure...at all.  The Pressure and Vacuum Relief Valves are set for 15 psig or 100 Kpa to keep the employees safe.  Cooling and Heating jackets are tested by the fabricator and noted for refrigerant or steam.  In a typical craft brewery steam must also be used at low pressure.  

    Anyone who is pressurizing low pressure Brite Beer Tanks and/or Uni-Tanks above 14.7 psig is likely breaking local pressure vessel code and runs the risk of rupturing tanks with fatal results.

    If the tanks are ASME rated they will have an ID plate with a serial number and pressure rating.  My concerns may be due to unwarranted paranoia but please...be careful.

    ------------------------------
    James Holden
    Brewing Consultant
    Retired but Busy
    jholden007@hotmail.com
    Canada/US/Mexico
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-11-2017 19:11

    Also, forgot to mention that we infuse with pure nitrogen instead of beer gas.

    ------------------------------
    Josiah Blomquist
    Head Brewer
    MacLeod Ale Brewing Co
    Van Nuys CA
    (805) 630-1976



  • 5.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-12-2017 11:09
    thanks for the responses on process and safety.

    Josiah 

    when your pressuring to 25 psi head space is this with nitrogen or co2?

    are you carbonating to 1.8/2.0 Vol of co2 first?

    when you mention running pure nitro through the carb stone is this regulator set at 30 psi or wide open untill you reach 30 psi headspace?

    about how long does the process take you?

    and are you testing No2 levels with an air tester after infusion or using a visual reference. if using a tester a what PPM is your target?

    ------------------------------
    Michael Smith
    Head Brewer
    Eel River Brewing Co.
    Fortuna, CA
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-12-2017 15:37
    We don't have tanks rated to hold 2 bar, so we use a different technique. We use a carbonation stone in-line while transferring from the fermenter to bright tank and bring the head pressure up to 15 psi using nitrogen though the carbonation stone in the bright tank. The next day we add additional nitrogen back up to 15 psi head pressure and slowly vent the tank while maintaining the head pressure for 30 minutes.

    This provides us with fantastic cascading action in the glass!

    ------------------------------
    Aaron Brodniak
    Director of Quality
    Diamond Knot Craft Brewing
    Mukilteo WA
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-13-2017 19:08
    We will purge the tank with CO2 before filling. We pressurize headspace with pure nitrogen. We do not add any additional co2 before nitrogenation. We set the regulators to overcome stone wetting pressure and height of liquid in tank as with normal carbonation to achieve 30 psi headspace pressure. We usually give it 48 hours, but we could speed it up by burping the tank a bit at or just below the 30 psi mark. We don't have a meter, we just rely on evaluating the cascading pour.

    ------------------------------
    Josiah Blomquist
    Head Brewer
    MacLeod Ale Brewing Co
    Van Nuys CA
    (805) 630-1976
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-16-2017 22:17
    What are you guys using for Nitrogen gas? Are you buying bottles from a gas supplier? What grade of gas are you using?

    If you are getting your N2 gas from a local supplier, how many barrels do you nitrogenate with what size of tank?

    Thanks,

    Corey

    ------------------------------
    Corey Zschoche
    Head Brewer
    Klamath Basin Brewing Co
    Klamath Falls OR
    (541) 273-5222
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-17-2017 12:17
    We use pure nitrogen. We get it from the same supplier as our bulk CO2. It gets delivered in large cylinders, same size as a 50lb CO2 tank. We find that we can nitrogenate about 30-45 bbls worth of beer off one cylinder

    ------------------------------
    Josiah Blomquist
    Head Brewer
    MacLeod Ale Brewing Co
    Van Nuys CA
    (805) 630-1976
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-17-2017 19:20
    Do you pressurize the kegs with N2 before filling? I've read that this can be important, as otherwise the nitrogen can come out of solution during racking.

    Cheers,

    Corey

    ------------------------------
    Corey Zschoche
    Head Brewer
    Klamath Basin Brewing Co
    Klamath Falls OR
    (541) 273-5222
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: seeking nitrogen gas infusion details

    Posted 01-18-2017 11:37
    We have a BBT that is rated to 2 bar.  

    We do not add any additional CO2 to the beer.  But, assume that 1.5 volumes of CO2 are in solution from fermentation.

    We will purge the BBT with N2, once filled we will push N2 through the carb stone looking pressurize the tank to about 27psi.  The tank is held at 32F.  We let the beer sit in the tank a minimum of 48hrs to absorb the N2. 

    We are using a direct line off of a nitrogen generator that is regulated down to the psi that we want.

    We are happy with the way that nitro beers are pouring for us.  A step that we have talked about but have not yet tried would be to purge kegs with N2, maybe in the future.

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    Brian Roeters Lead Brewer Rockford Brewing Company Rockford MI (616) 862-8782
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